In this episode, Ian O’Byrne, speaks with a group of research students led by Raúl Alberto Mora Vélez.
- Moby Dick, Hermann Melville
- The Notebook, Nicolas Sparks
- Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen
Doug Belshaw: [00:00:22] Welcome to the Tao of WAO, a podcast about the intersection of technology, society, and internet culture with a dash of philosophy and art for good measure. I’m Doug Belshaw.
Laura Hilliger: [00:00:32] And I’m Laura Hilliger. This podcast season is currently partially unfunded. You can support this podcast and other. We are open projects and products at opencollective.com/weareopen.
Doug Belshaw: [00:00:45] This season of the The Tao of WAO is looking at the future of new literacies as part of a submission to the Winter 2023 edition for the Journal of Media Literacy. Or as you’ll hear us refer to it.
Laura Hilliger: [00:00:56] Yeah, and in this episode, our collaborator Ian O’Byrne had a conversation with three young scholars. They all have varied experiences with media and information literacies ranging from fandom, gaming, social media, and they’re translating their experience into their budding research.
Doug Belshaw: [00:01:16] So they’re going to speak about the potential of games to connect us to our true selves, about the potential of social media and how we portray ourselves there.
Laura Hilliger: [00:01:24] They’re also going to talk about how platforms can give us space to express our true selves, and to advocate for our own values.
Doug Belshaw: [00:01:32] Stephanie says at one point that literacy is movement and metamorphosis. I’ll bet that in our final episode we’re going to speak more about that.
Laura Hilliger: [00:01:40] That’s right. So have a listen and we’re looking forward to your feedback.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:01:53] My name is Ian O’Byrne. I am thoughtful, appreciative of your time. We are using this as part of a research project, an open research project where we’re thinking about the future of media and information literacy. As we do this. We’re reaching out to colleagues and friends to better understand what could and should happen out there. As we think about teaching and learning and being citizens of a globally connected web. So please take a minute and just introduce yourselves and let us know about the last book you read or your favourite book. Um, David, go for it.
David Hernandez: [00:02:32] And thank you very much. My name is David Hernandez. I’m 20 years old, and I’m glad to be here because I think this is a good experience for me to learn and to also share what I know and what I’ve learned in in my classes and my experiences. And my favourite book is Moby Dick, written by Herman Melville. It’s a book that that I love very much because of the of the subjects it tackles, the things the, the, the book talks about. I mean, it’s it’s a really nice experience because the main, the main topic of the book is how we as, as humans, put too much focus on something that doesn’t care that much about us. And that’s animals. Animals don’t have the same reasoning as well. They don’t have any reasoning at all. They just act on instinct so they don’t really know how much we can think about them. Like because he perceives a whale as some enemy, some traitor or something, but it’s just a whale. It’s not that important for for the whale, but he has some kind of revenge towards it. So it’s really interesting.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:03:44] Thank you for that. I have a special place in my heart for Moby Dick. That’s one of those. When I was a middle grade student, I. That was one of the books that and The Count of Monte Cristo. I didn’t even know what the books were about, but I just saw how big they were. And and I looked at that as like an accomplishment. If I could try and read that and understand it. Um, so thank you for that. Um, Jacqueline, who are you? Jackie, who are you? What have you been reading?
Jackie: [00:04:12] Okay. Um, hello to everyone. To all people that are listening to us. So my name is Jacqueline. I really love when people call me Jackie. So my students, my family and everyone just call me in that way. So I really feel like I connected a connection with people when they call me with that way. So I’m 27 years old, I’m a teacher, and the last book that I read was one from Nicholas Sparks. So, um, at the beginning of this year, I just set a purpose, and it was to read as much books from him as possible, because I’ve been into exploring the movies from him. So. And I said, why not to give a chance to the books? We always know that there is more inside a book that on what we can see on the screen. So the last book that I read was The Notebook that is, you know, the typical story of romance that just tells how two young people fall in love in the 1940s. But although it is a very cliche story that talks about how a couple is separated and reunited in in in a lot of years, I really love this book because it gives me like the idea of knowing that every person can be a writer, a diary that is like the purpose of of the book. Who knows? It became a story, a movie. And, and I think that we have that power of having a story in every single thing of our lives. So that was the last book that I read.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:05:55] Thank you for that. I’ll have to go check out some Nicholas Sparks books now. Is there a top one that that is your favourite that you begin with, or pretty much anyone?
Jackie: [00:06:07] Well, I really have enjoyed that one because of the movie, because everyone says that they’ve kind of relation that the characters have is so toxic. Okay. And in fact, it is. But, you know, in the way the writer just tried to tell us the story, you ignore all the bad things that are there and just say, oh my God, this is so romantic at the end. So I think that is like the type of story that you have to read if you like to cry at the middle of the night with romantic stories.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:06:40] Sounds good. I regularly cry in the middle of the night, so I’ll just fit it into my schedule. So, Andrea, what do you listen to? Sorry. What do you listen to? I’m thinking about the notebook now. What do you read?
Stefany: [00:07:01] Uh, okay first, hi my name is Stefany or Andrea. Whatever you want. Um. I’m 40, I’m 40. I’m 24 years old. Currently. I’m studying English, Spanish education program at Universidad Pontificia Bolivariana. And also, thank you for inviting us. I have to mention that I’m crazy about Jane Austen and my favourite book is Pride and Prejudice. I love Pride and Prejudice and also I love Emma. For me, English literature was um, was an inspiring, um, moment in my life when I started reading in English literature. And once I get to know Jane Austen literature, I could understand the way or the importance of expressing feelings at reading, or in this case, at writing, as Jane Austen did back then. So yeah, that’s my that’s my favourite book. Pride and prejudice.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:08:08] Thank you for that. I feel like such a slacker now. All of your books are such deep cuts. You know, I feel like I need to really improve my reading. Um. As I said earlier, this season of the podcast is looking at the future of new literacies. We’re thinking about new and digital and web literacies. We’re interviewing experts in the field to think about the future of media information literacy. And the the one thing that we’re trying to figure out in this work is how might we define the future of media and information literacy in theory and practice? How are we supposed to make sense of this? How are we supposed to use this to guide teaching and learning and research? Um, so can you explain a little bit about and this is for all of you, can you explain a little bit about the the work that you’ve done and you’re currently doing, uh, around that question, what are your thoughts around that question?
David Hernandez: [00:09:13] And well and in. I’m part of the group and we are working in about language and how video games are important part of learning new languages. So the main topic we we always try to focus on is how video games can be used as a learning tool. How can we use them to learn a new language? How can we use them to create strategies that can improve how we do research? And that’s the that’s the main focus right now. I’m working on on a secret project because a teacher, Professor Rao, told me to not spill too much details about it. So it’s kind of top, top secret at the moment. But right now I’m working on a certain part that involves transcending beyond the concept of video games and trying to figure out how we can go beyond that concept and think more outside the box. So if we know that video games can help in order to learn English or any other language, then what about us? Like, what can we take from that? Yeah, we can learn from video games, but yeah, what can we we need to go beyond. We need to present in some way. Because in the end, the project we are working on at the moment is not the only thing that is going to talk about this. We need to try and create something that people can, like, analyse, can discuss like a lot of years in the future so that that’s the that’s the main thing, that’s I’m focusing at the moment. I was also working on something else in regards to the Rashomon effect that talks about multi narrative processes, that involves a lot of characters and how each one has their own narrative and that. Yeah, but but right now I’m focusing on the other part.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:11:12] So beyond just playing video games to learn English. Can I play video games to learn about myself and be better about yourself?
David Hernandez: [00:11:23] But like, I mean, it’s like, for example, you know, when there’s a glass, some some people think that the glass is half empty, some other thing, that the glass is half full. But that’s something they think, because they are overanalyzing the fact that the glass has water. Yes. So that’s the that’s that’s what I mean. Like if we know that video games can help us learn a new language, what else can can that do for us as teachers or as students? Like, yeah, we are learning a new language thanks to this tool, but how important is it and what can and what can we like not learn? Like what can we? Understand from that because you can understand on a superficial level. But but I’m talking about a deeper meaning because we already talk about all the theoretical stuff. Now it’s time to talk about the the things that go beyond theory.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:12:22] Thank you for that. So what? What else does everybody think? What are your thoughts? What work are you doing around media information literacy? What are your thoughts about, um, you know what what the future might look like for us.
Jackie: [00:12:39] Okay. I would like to start by telling me how I started my research path. And the thing is that some years ago, I’m a university teacher of language of English. So in one year ago, I was planning classes as a normal day of my life. And in the place where I work, there are or there is like an pre-established curriculum that we as teachers cannot move beyond that one. So that curriculum, you know, has like the goals, the objectives and all the of the steps that we teachers need to accomplish into a classroom inside our curriculum. There are some readings and some videos that are mandatory for us to reproduce at classes, and we need to work on them. When I was implementing that strategy, that is mandatory from the place where I work, I noticed that the content that was mandatory didn’t have any connection with learners. They were just readings that had like an aim to make learners, make them comprehend what the author wanted to say, what happened in a certain date, but only superficial questions with the reading. It was then that I discovered that those readings can have a power that goes beyond their. That we can use those readings more than an element for make them proficient in a language regarding if they have acquired or if they haven’t acquired the knowledge. For example, one of the readings that was in the curriculum where I teach was regarding informal economy.
Jackie: [00:14:25] That was a topic, and that reading and special trying to tell learners that selling on the streets, it’s very good. And it was something that we were talking in class. They could understand the main idea of the text. They could answer specific questions. But I was thinking, is this the real purpose of a language? So is this what we have to do? Do we have to reproduce the ideas that are written on the text? And it was then that I started like reading and trying to involve evolve and try to find what could I do in order to move beyond those barriers that are there. And the first thing that came to my mind is that we as humans, not even as students, we all have a story to tell. So what can we do if we work on that test? But we try to move that like playing perspective into a personal perspective. So I just try to move into that path. And I discovered the social media. Well, I didn’t discover them, but I discovered like a potential there because we as normal people as we are, we have social media like Facebook, Instagram, even TikTok, even though I don’t use it. But we make of those spaces, spaces where we portray ourselves So I started to to I understood that platforms, personal platforms can provide a spaces where learners can talk about hundreds of topics, even academic topics, and we can talk about informal economy, but not in order to see what happened in the story, but how we have lived that part of the story. So I think that now that we are talking about the future of, of this media and the information is that we need to move of being passive readers in order to be people that produce readings. And it was because of that that at the beginning I found a connection with The Notebook, The Book of Nicholas Sparks. Because we as humans, we don’t have to have a lot of knowledge about the world because we are forms of knowledge. I consider that we we need to to make of the future of media literacy spaces like social platforms that are open for everyone. Spaces that can be like a moment for us to portray our cultural treats, to tell the story that we live on a daily basis, and even we can move into critical stances we can make of those spaces. Spaces where we advocate for for social change. So and I think that it can be like the direction that we need to take for, for the future of of media.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:17:24] Thank you for that. Focusing more on being, you know, with the internet, we can be readers and writers, and so now we can lean in and create content other than just consuming stuff. Stefany, what are your thoughts about this work, what the future of media information lit looks like and your ideas and your work and and what the future might look like.
Stefany: [00:17:46] Okay. I’m just here in my spotlight trying to process that information that my classmates were talking about, because their point of view for me are very important. But I have to mention that literacy is different for all of us, right? And I really like metaphors. For example, I see literature like mirror metamorphosis process because literacy is like like a butterfly, as Jackie mentioned before, about the movement and about passive reading students or reading a doing, I don’t know what what how can I say that idea of Jackie’s? Um, I will say that literacy now nowadays is movement in so much more for teachers because, for example. And I couldn’t imagine at the beginning of the program that I’m person, that I could make my own materials, especially in my own technological and in online materials even. I’m very interested in on learning, programming and learning different stuff. To maybe boost of this ideas that I have about how can I create my physical materials and put it or transform it on, or put it online? So I couldn’t imagine that a teacher could do that for me. A teacher only could teach something or English or Spanish and make lessons and and probably there will be no more activities for the teacher. Yeah. Also, I would like to mention that for me, virtual and online spaces are really important. Even in Dr. Berry has been studied these hybrid spaces. And that topic is really calling out my attention because for me, social networking though, social networking has something that we don’t know what it is. And for me, one of that thing that makes social networking so important is hashtag. I’m upset with hashtags. The first time that I saw a hashtag was in a in a in a teenager program called iCarly. Icarly. Victorious. Sorry. And when they use it on a statement and a status and then put a hashtag and for me, that was huge. That was really that was new at the time because I didn’t know what a hashtag was. Now, nowadays in Colombia, using hashtag is there is not awareness of hashtag maybe. So I’m trying to maybe get a focus to a student. Not only high school students, even my classmates at university, they don’t know how to use hashtag. And past few days ago, I was talking with Dr. Berry about how hashtags are meaningful spaces to create community and to track on communities and information and a lot of stuff that now I can I can bear in mind what those stuff are about hashtags. So, for example, now I’m trying to track on what’s happening on TikTok because TikTok is another space that also have hashtags, and I want to see what’s going on there and what is happening with hashtag now. Now. Because, for example, a the hashtag lang was Twitter, but now Twitter doesn’t exist. So for me that that’s something that it worries me a lot because I really love the idea of hashtag and what was happening with hashtag with second second language learning and hashtag, because they have a really good a history. So now I don’t know what’s happening there and what, what a second language learners want to do with hashtags. Now that there is no hashtag lang like Twitter, they are moving out another social networks platform. So that’s my that’s my question for leadership.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:22:36] And that’s it’s you know, one of the things I’m thinking about, first of all, thank you all for your your expertise and your brilliance. You know, one of the things I’m thinking about is that Doug and Laura and I were talking about this in in another discussion about how many of us are not sharing as much online as we used to. And, you know, I’ve been looking at my own literacy practices and social media and looking out what I share and don’t share, and I share a lot less. And so, you know, we to use your term, we all go through these metamorphoses like we go through these changes and we try to figure out what we could and should do with these spaces. So as you’ve all discussed, we could do a lot or the hope is that we could do a lot with media information literacy, with technology, with digital spaces and web lit, with social media. Um. In this research and these discussions, we’re trying to figure out what that future looks like. We’re trying to figure out what what what do we look like on the other side of that metamorphosis, or what could we look like on the other side of that? And to make sense of that, we started with we chose race, gender, um, and I because right now if you don’t talk about AI, then people wonder why you’re doing the work in general. And then to me, one of the most important pieces is, is all of your expertise. Is that the the internet, you know, the next cadre of individuals that are going to come online are non-native English speakers. And for the most part, up till now, the the internet has been predominantly English speaking space. And so I’m really interested in what the future looks like as the internet becomes more diverse. And, you know, there you don’t have an expectation right now, there’s this expectation that you go online and pull up a YouTube video or listen to a podcast or look at a website, and it’s going to be in English, but we’re heading to a space where that’s not going to be true. And so I’m wondering. You know before. What are your thoughts about separating this out into race, gender I and Geography International Translanguaging what are your thoughts about trying to make sense of that future metamorphosis using those four lenses? At the beginning.
Stefany: [00:25:14] I don’t know if it’s fortunately or unfortunately, English is like this movie is everything everywhere, all at once, because English has become very important in English is everywhere and everywhere. English means everything at this word, or at least at this moment. Okay, for us, for example, talking about am I okay? If you want to use I, you need to to to speak English or at least know a little bit in English, the basic English if you want to use the the platform. Because if you don’t know English, you might not get any information from the platform. So for us, like native non-native English speakers and it can be difficult try to put or to fit the correct words that we need to in order to get the information that we want. So that is important and that is literacy about that is part. I mean, I mean, I think that is that would be one of the main points that leadership have to ask for how to understand I in order to be part of I, of I and understand I in order to maybe I don’t know, teach or um include I at the classroom here in Colombia. Okay.
David Hernandez: [00:26:51] I it’s a really important tool and I think it’s really valuable. But the issue is that people are not using it the way you are portraying. And I and I love the way you’re portraying the use of I because I use it that way. Actually, I use it like that. But most of the people don’t.
Stefany: [00:27:08] Absolutely, absolutely agree. And that’s why we need to open up to AI and open up to ChatGPT or any other AI platform that comes up time to time. Um, and about reading, for example, there is another point too that could be belong to a future literacy. Is that reading unfortunately has changed? Yeah. And maybe now it is not like we used to know reading for example a long test now or are boring and books are boring. Okay, um, now what is successful in class is our short text or TikTok videos, or Instagram posts or YouTube ads. I don’t know, I’m I’m this ideas comes to mind at this moment, but maybe. This is, is happening with the with the evolution. Yeah. Because for example now people needs to go quickly and maybe the idea of reading or large test are like we don’t have time for that or I don’t want I don’t want to read long text. Yeah. Because no reason. Yeah. So we we need to study that and we need to focus on okay. People don’t want to read large tests. But what is happening with reading? They are reading videos. They are reading music. They are reading Instagram posts. They are reading a GPT answers. What are they reading? Yeah. And why why why don’t we try to understand this new Reddit trend? Because it’s a trend. Okay. Um, and that’s why I think it’s really important to understand trends, control trends, and maybe do something with the with that controlling thing on trends.
Jackie: [00:29:18] Now to add something to what they have said. I would like to say so. And it’s like a long time ago we used to write our messages in on walls. Then we pass by writing machines. Then we have the facilities or the the easy way of writing on a computer and just changing our mistakes. So it is impossible to to think about the future without question. And all these technologies that have emerged, I think that we are just in a digital moment and and what we have to do is like to create a dialogue with learners in order to take content, propose even long readings, short videos, whatever thing. But I think that what we have to do is move. We move beyond the tasks that we are promoting for learners. I always have thought that we need to promote like critical moments in order for them to to not just answer comprehension questions that they can find. They can find in, in, in eyes. But we need to to try to. To make them connect what they are reading with, what connect what they are reading with their personal lives, and think that that’s not something a machine can do. So I think that what we have to do is to promote learning as an areas that can be connected with AI, but how can we connect the AI with the personal life of each person? So I think that that’s a good question that we need to to start thinking about.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:31:09] Thank you for that. Um, you know, I’m really inspired by the three of you. I’m thankful for the time and expertise that you’ve shared here. Um, you know, I’m thinking back to the way we began and the discussion about the books that you’re reading and how deep and rich and and historical. You know, a lot of those texts are. Um, and so I’ll get you out of here on this question. Um, and once again, I’m really thankful there’s a lot in this that I’m going to be, you know, thinking about, uh, for some time. Um, so. As you navigate globally connected spaces. You know, we’ve talked a lot about social media. We’ve talked a lot about TikTok or not, TikTok and Threads and Twitter. And now Twitter’s not there. And the power of the hashtag, you know, and you all referenced, you know, use of YouTube videos to, to learn or different stories and, you know, a rich tapestry of, of texts as we, as we learn. Um, and I’m interested in your experiences in navigating a networked space, and I’m interested in the, the literacies, the practices, the skills, the time management that you employ, uh, working in a global space, you know, getting ready for this. We were trying to pick a time and what works for everybody. And strangely, I can’t figure out how to tell time. So there’s that. Um, but you know what? You know, what skills do you all use as you interact and connect with others online? Do you do you, uh, is there competition there? You know, is there potential misunderstandings, cultural or otherwise? Do you have do you feel like there are opportunities to work and collaborate with others or not? And so, you know, how do you think through and work through and sort of what norms and expectations do you experience as you work in diverse international settings?
David Hernandez: [00:33:22] Uh, well, um, about that question, I think the most important thing is understanding different cultures, because right now, maybe in Colombia, people don’t mind certain topics that much. But if you are talking with someone that come from the the United States, maybe he’s going to be offended by certain topics that I don’t find offensive. And and I have to take that in account. I have to understand the the impact that my words have on other people. And the other thing that I think is important is that sometimes, well, people don’t. People see the language in different ways. Because, for example, when I learn English, I learn English as a second language. But people from England and from the United States didn’t learn English as a second language. It’s their native language, which means that the way they learn was exposition from their their peers, their family, etcetera. But I learned in a classroom, so that’s a big difference since I learned from the structure of the language, that means that my understanding is different from theirs, uh, because the their, their English, in this case, the example, their English, it’s more natural than mine. And and that’s a fact. So that’s something else that I have to think about because, for example, when I was just chatting with someone from another country that speaking that speaking in English, they told me, why do you type like a robot? And I’m like, what do you mean? And they tell me, no, it’s like you’re you’re writing perfectly.
David Hernandez: [00:35:06] We don’t write like that. And I’m like, yeah, I’m my I’m sorry. My apologies. That’s how I write because that’s how I learn to write. So that’s the thing we have to understand that how we use English is going to be different because the, the background that we have, thanks to, to our learning to to our process of learning, it’s going to make the results different. And the last thing too, that my colleagues have their turn is that I think that people right now since because in my time when people were doing stuff, it was like on the street, like outside, but now people do stuff on the internet. So that means that it’s like the internet right now. It’s the place that they have a that they are related to. Because maybe I was hurt by something that happened outside by the internet, was like a place where I don’t really mind what happens. But since now people grow up in the internet, they like put too much attention to the things that happen in the internet. So for example, they are it’s like the this the last generation that people sometimes mention that people are way too fragile now than they were before. And I think that’s because people right now grow up on the internet. And that’s like the the main place where interactions occur.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:36:33] Yeah, I’m thinking a lot about some of the points you made earlier about like gaming and learning language, but also learning other, you know, deeper levels, um, you know, an opportunities to think, to, to connect, but then also ways in which we’re, we’re possibly not connecting with others. Um, Stephanie, Jackie, what are your thoughts?
Stefany: [00:36:56] There is a community of learners. And I mean, this is not the only one community. There are a lot of them. But on discord is like a new space to get to know with people around the world and talk about likes, talk about culture, talk about how do you learn a language? Could you help me to learn a language? Could you please bring information, facts or anything that I should know about English, Spanish, Korean, German? Okay, so trying to to keep to keep update with these things for me even that I’m being round of technology stuff and social networking and a bunch of digital stuff. For me this thing is kind of crazy because there are a lot of chats, there are a lot of of messages about people around the world and trying to make their point of view in a in, in just one channel. And is is is is impressive. How can we connect each other and try to to stay updated with with something about languages? So for me that is a way to understand the world and a way to understand spaces, a way to understand literacy, and a way to ask me about what is happening out and what is happening in what is on and what is offline. Um, as a teacher and as a student, there is a lot that I need to learn. Yeah. And I don’t know what’s happening even now here in Colombia or here where I sit in on and this is helping me to maybe seek a different point of view to understand literacy, to understand what is happening. And like I said before, online and offline, because there are two different words. Maybe they can work together, but they have the own their own rhythm and their own language and their own way of functioning and something.
Jackie: [00:39:17] So I want to to say that I really feel really thankful to the way in which nowadays we appreciate literacy. Um, I think that we as humans, we need to, to understand that we need other people in order to learn. We need their perspectives and we need every single thing from the other. So if we have, for example, a news, a newspaper that is telling us something bad that a person did, maybe we can have our own perception, but thanks to the other people is that we can acquire new knowledge. So and for me, it’s important to understand that when we talk about a cross cultural connection, we are not just talking about moving abroad, other countries, but just looking at the other one that is next to me. I think that with literacy, we have the opportunity of even in a deeper way, the other people, as nowadays we cannot have like the easy way to to portray who we really are face to face. And I think that something that we need to appreciate about media is that we don’t have to buy some tickets in order to move to other country, as we have nowadays, the chance from travelling without going out from home. And now all the sport is disappear. And I think that we have something really cool. And it is that we we. Although right now we are communicating in English, we can have a different vision of the war because of the place from we come from. And something that we have to move beyond is taking into account that. Although we were born on a place with media, we are like. Citizens of the world.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:41:33] Thank you so much for that. Once again, I’m really thankful for each of for all of your time, for your patience, your persistence and spending time to to talk with me and deal with these tools. The mic is yours for last words.
David Hernandez: [00:41:50] Well, I just want to say that I’m very thankful to be here because this is a really interesting experience, and every time I have the chance to challenge myself and take these opportunities to speak English and to also like, share what I’ve learned, because that’s like, that’s that’s really beautiful thing. And having the chance to to share knowledge with others and learn from others because that’s, that’s where what we are here for, we are here to learn from from others, from you, from from Andrea, from Jackie. They have a lot to share and I’m willing to listen. So I’m that it’s it was a really good experience and and I hope we can meet again sometime in the future to talk to to to talk more.
Jackie: [00:42:42] I also think that thanks to what you have said, a lot of questions have emerged. I right now I think about how we as teachers are people that are promoting all this media information, how we can establish like instead of dividing us regarding from the place where we come from, the language that we speak, our hobbies and interests, how can we not see the other person as a boring one, but as a person that is my peer, instead of a person that can leave me with some ideas that, instead of being like an enemy of me, can be a person to to build a knowledge. So thank you so much for having us. It was really nice to be here.
Stefany: [00:43:32] Okay. And next time we shall talk about memes and stickers. They are. They are part of the this digital revolution. They demand our our our our thoughts because they are really important. Nowadays, students cannot make a sentence without quoting a meme or sticker. So that’s my that’s my opinion for for this. And overall I enjoy this this conversation and having having a great time with David and Jackie. And thank you so much for sharing your, your thoughts and, and obviously your information about your own research path. So thank you. Thank you so much.
Ian O’Byrne: [00:44:24] Well, thank you all for the expertise and time. And hopefully we get a chance to all hang out soon.